Guapo, no? *
I’m sitting in a plaza in Zacatecas, watching people pass by. The people here are strikingly handsome, mostly moreno and indigenous. They have beautiful, bronze skin, chiseled features, and deep, dark eyes. I’m enchanted. All kinds of people pass by. Old. Young. Lovers. Weatherbeaten old women selling snacks. Giggling girls. Packs of teenaged boys. Older men with sensible clothes and well-polished shoes. An occasional elder gentleman in a full suit. Well-dressed criollo couples. But most here are younger, and moreno.
A clown is busy entertaining the crowd. “I need a girl to help me with the act. Who wants to come forward? C’mon, don’t be shy!” A couple of girls, aged about four and five step forward hesitantly. “Bienvendas!” shouts the clown. Then a rapid-fire series of questions. “Are you married or single?” The crowd giggles. The girls, after all have barely entered kindergarten.
The girls answer, “Single.”
“What kind of guy do you want to marry?” shouts the clown. “Handsome or ugly?”
“Handsome,” the girls dutifully answer.
“Tall or short?”
“Tall!” scream the girls.
“Moreno o güero?” asks the clown. (Dark or light skinned?)
“Güero,” answer the girls without missing a beat.
And thus goes the indoctrination in Mexico. Tall, güero, handsome. These words all belong together here. Ugly, short, moreno. These words too, sadly, go together in Mexico. The really weird thing? The crowd eats it up, laughing and applauding. But they are almost universally moreno themselves. Sure, some of them are “moreno claro,” the lighter end of moreno. But plenty are dark, bronzed, moreno, and you know their ancestors tried their best to fight off the invading Spaniards, whose ideas of beauty they’ve now fully adopted. Frankly, to my Scandinavian-descended eye, even the so-called white people here aren’t all that white, looking deeply southern European at best, and most probably have at least a few milliliters of indigenous blood running through their veins too. Heck, even Cortéz took a native wife.
As I pass through the streets I make eye contact with lots of strangers, mostly men because that’s who I am. I get an amazing amount of deep looks back. Of course, I’m the most güero thing in town. Or at least I was until the group of young German tourists showed up, following an equally fair guide, hearing about Zacatecas in German. It’s an odd image, and I have to confess that I followed them for a spell just for the sheer novelty of hearing people speak German here in the depths of Mexico. But as I continue on my way and exchange looks with these striking Zacatecanos, I ponder. Why do they look back at me? Is it the intensity of my own looks at them? Are they curious to see someone so white? (Believe me, I’m on the lighter end of Caucasian, what with green eyes and Danish parents, and I’d better not tarry too long in this intense Mexican sun, or I’ll be a deep shade of red.) Certainly there are very few Gringo tourists here, at least if my last visit and this visit are anything to go by, so I’m a bit of a rare bird hereabouts. Mexican tourists? There are plenty. But we Gringos seem to have been scared off by the news media and various bits of narco-hysteria.
Yesterday, I got a chance to get a bit of a deeper view into this whole moreno inferiority complex. I was hanging out in the Plazuela de Garcia, when I spotted a stunning young man sitting in an arcade talking on his cell phone. As I move about the plaza taking photos from different angles, his eyes follow me, and I keep looking back. After about fifteen minutes of this, it’s clear he’s gay and seemingly just as interested in me as I am in him. I dally for awhile on a bench and smile at him. He smiles back.
Plazuela de Salinas Garcia, Zacatecas, ZAC
After a while, he gets up to walk down the street, and I move in the same direction. After a few minutes I have to cross the street over to his side. I’m now walking right next to him, so I say, “Hola! Cómo estás?” and give him a big smile. We start to chat as we walk downhill toward the cathedral. Up close he is nothing short of stunning — jet black hair, deep deep brown eyes that I could lose myself in, and a beautiful face with a square jaw, a very perfect, straight European nose, and eyes that reflect his mixed heritage. His skin tone is definitely moreno, but closer to moreno claro than dark moreno. We’ll call him Enrique. (Not his real name.)
It turns out Enrique is 19. Yowza! I’m a little taken aback at my boldness. I’m not into boys and I thought he was older. But we continue to chat, and eventually end up in Parque Alameda. He’s studying nursing and is clearly intelligent. We have a long discussion about college majors, movies, culture, and then the conversation turns to beauty.
“I’m planning to get a nose job in few months,” he says casually. I am literally stunned. Enrique has the kind of nose most people getting surgery hope for, but few achieve. It’s about as perfect a nose as I’ve seen, perfectly straight, smallish without being girly, and perfectly formed.
“Are you completely nuts?” I say. “Your nose is perfect in every way. It would be a locura for you to get a nose job.”
“I want it to be smaller,” he says.
“If you have your nose made smaller, you will look like Michael Jackson,” I say. “The nose will no longer fit your face. It will look fake, and you will have wasted your money. Seriously, I just met you. But for the love of God, don’t get a nose job.” For emphasis, I add, “Please,” with a pleading look in my eye. He starts to look as if what I said might have penetrated just a smidgen. I start to feel hopeful.
“I want to have my skin lightened too,” he adds, sort of changing the topic. I look at him again skeptically. “I also want botox.”
“I’d love to have your skin tone. Your skin is beautiful. It’s a lovely color, it’s even in tone, and it’s clear. Seriously, you could be a model just the way you are. Eres súper guapo así. You don’t need to change a thing.” I’m starting to wonder about the sanity of all this, and beginning to realize Enrique has some self-esteem issues, and at least some of those self esteem issues revolve around his being moreno in a culture that doesn’t appreciate it. This despite the fact that most of the people here are moreno, and a good chunk of them are very beautiful in a non-European way.
We continue hanging out and I try to persuade him that he’s beautiful the way he is. I don’t know if I’ve done any lasting good, and it saddens me that Mexican culture does this to its majority population. Imagine being Caucasian in America thirty years ago and feeling like you were ugly because you didn’t look African-American, or Chinese, or Hispanic, or like something else you’d never be. It’s got to be sad and frustrating. And totally unnecessary. How ridiculous would it be for me to get surgery so that I could have an aquiline, Aztec nose? I wouldn’t look somehow indigenously beautiful; I’d look ridiculous. Europeans don’t have some kind of monopoly on beauty. Far from it. Call me self-oppressive, but I find a lot of the folks here in Zacatecas more beautiful than the average European.
And I wish the clowns in the public square would see the light too.
Dark is beautiful. Don’t fight it. If you’re moreno or anyone of color and reading this, please, love yourself for who you are. You are more beautiful than you think.
Jump to the next post from this trip.
* Published with Enrique’s permission.
El Gringo Suelto 
I wish there was more people with the feet down to earth! God bless you / Teresia from Sweden
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Hola Teresia! Thanks for the lovely comment. I’ve certainly enjoyed my Mexican experiences. Saludos and thanks for stopping by!
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Thank you, this definitely is nice to remember. I have dark straight hair, high cheek bones, dark brown skin, and the aquiline nose that you describe. I look like I’m straight from an Aztec temple but I actually grew up in a predominantly white American suburb. Sometimes I forget dark can be beautiful too, reminders like this are nice 🙂
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Hola Joel,
Thanks for the thoughtful comment. Your photo certainly shows a handsome face, so yeah, remember it: Dark is beautiful. Future comments will not be moderated. Saludos and thanks for stopping by!
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I am Mexican from Guadalajara, Jalisco.
It is sad your friend thinks he is ugly. By Mexican standards of beauty, he will be above average (8/10) and popular with the girls. I am also an 8/10 by Mexican male standards of beauty (or so the girls have told me as I have had a good amount of good looking gals back in my single days).I have big, dark eyes,wavy dark brown hair, olive skin, long face, somewhat Semitic-like nose, angular features and I am slender despite not being tall (5´7″). Racially, I am an Euro-mestizo (mestizo with more European features).
I agree that the Mexican beauty standards is very close minded and racist. I used to live in the US for 14 years and not everyone that is blonde and Nordic looking was handsome or beautiful. I saw a lot who were ugly, had asymmetrical features, or poor hygiene, whilst on the other spectrum, I saw gorgeous looking Asian and Middle Eastern girls with long, model like legs and symmetrical features.
Beauty is not measured by skin colour or race. It is how symmetrical is one person´s face as well as how healthy one´s body is. Mexicans should start to wake up and realize this as even though I am not tall and Nordic in features, and still I was able to pull up both good looking Mexican and foreign gals as they liked my mostly symmetrical features on my face, fashion style, but also I am sincere, committed, faithful, passionate male.
Mexicans we need to boost up our confidence.
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I agree with everyone that it’s time to move on from antiquated (and harmful!) stereotypes of beauty! If you’ve ever been to Southern California, you can see first hand how when chasing after an ideal everyone kinda starts to look the same…boring! By the way, sorry I’m a little late to the party on this blog post (but it was a good one!).
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Hola Danielle! Thanks for your comment, which is always welcome. I don’t close off old posts to comments, and they occasionally still trickle in, for which I’m thankful. And yes, I agree with you about the problems with a sole standard of beauty. Though it’s kind of trite, I do think everyone’s beautiful in their own way, or at least many people are. Saludos and thanks for stopping by!
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Hmmm, well, to each his own, I guess. I know this is not going to be the popular opinion, but I prefer European (or African) features. Skin color doesn’t matter to me, but I am not a big fan of the predominant features in Oaxaca. Morenitos with more European features (which an aquiline nose is, by the way)? Beautiful. Black Veracruzanos? Gorgeous. It’s all about features. But those are probably my Eurocentric beauty ideals talking.
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Hola Unabashed! Certainly everyone is entitled to their own taste, but do you really think small children should be indoctrinated to think that their own racially predominant features are unattractive? I don’t but opinions differ. Saludos.
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No, of course not. I feel bad even for making that comment (although I still feel that way, unfortunately). But as I said, these are likely not innate preferences and are European beauty ideals that have been pounded into me (much as they are pounded into people who don’t meet those ideals), which is hard for me to change. Actually I think it’s terrible, because people who don’t meet those ideals will have to work hard not to feel bad about themselves (and not to try to change themselves).
I hate how everyone on Mexican TV looks Scandinavian. (At the darkest, Mediterranean). No one seems to question the whiteness of Mexican commercials and telenovelas, though. It’s glaring to me in a country that is majority mestizo that they have so little representation in the media.
So yes, I am brainwashed (like all the rest) but don’t suffer for it, as I’m white and meet those Eurocentric beauty ideals (except for that I’m fetishized by men–more here than elsewhere–and I hate it; so I guess it does affect me too, though certainly not to the extent of those who don’t meet those ideals).
Living in Mexico has certainly made me realize the extent of my own racist brainwashing. It’s been an eye-opening experience.
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Thanks for coming back and re-commenting! I’m with you about Mexican TV. In fact, I’ve had this discussion with various Mexicans, and some of them don’t even notice the fact that the people on TV look nothing like the people in the street. As you say, more “Scandinavian” in a way. But yes, this programming from an early age is, in my opinion, part of the problem. And that’s why I wrote what I wrote about the clown show. Because it’s got to be frustrating to be trained to want something you likely can’t have. Right? Frustrating for all. Saludos.
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This is all true, I can attest to it. I’m a gay hispanic female living in Tijuana, B.C. Mexico. I’m American but I moved here about a year ago to save money. I live right by the border and cross daily.
I’ve met so many people here that, really prefer light skinned people. Being dark skinned is seen as unattractive or disappointing to be. When I was living in the U.S. I considered myself an average looking person, and I was always trying to tan because I didn’t want to be “so pale”. I would just get sunburned, lol.
But when I came here, everything changed for me. All of a sudden I was considered to be an attractive person because of my light skin, light brown eyes and jet black hair. My social life and dating life skyrocketed, which had never happened to me back in the U.S. People treat me differently here. I’m always being complimented on how “blancita” I am. And when my friends talk about dating or people they’re attracted to, they will always bring up skin color. They would say things like, “Ew he’s very dark, or Ooh he’s handsome, he’s light skinned. Or I want my kids to be light skinned. Or I wish I was light skinned, etc,etc.” I had a lady at a hair salon tell me once that she had one daughter that is light skinned with black hair like me and that she was the prettiest of her kids, the others were morenitos.
Great article by the way. I was googling around wondering if I was the only one that noticed this, lol.
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Oh and I forgot to mention the whole nose thing too. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Enrique’s nose, I think he’s handsome. But I get what he’s talking about, the second thing I always get complimented on is my nose, it’s small and refined I guess and that’s always the second physical trait they notice here.
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Hola Decepticons! I personally thought Enrique was drop-dead gorgeous which is why he made such an interesting study for this whole post. Saludos!
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Hola Decepticons! Wow! That’s a very interesting story how your social life changed overnight with a move across the border. As someone with very light skin, I have definitely noticed the extra attention I get south of the border too. While it’s nice for me, I think the aversion to dark skin, especially in a country where it’s so prevalent, is rather sad. Thanks for your kind comment. Any future comment should go through immediately. Saludos!
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Hello!!!!
I am a Mexican from Guadalajara, and it is a shame that Enrique thinks his nose is ugly and wants to whiten his skin colour. I myself have dark brown wavy hair, square jaw like Enrique´s, olive skin or moreno claro as we call it here in Mexico, big, brown eyes and somewhat big and mildly hooked nose.
Even though I have these features which are typical of tapatios (people of Guadalajara), I would never want to make my nose smaller nor I wish to have white, rosy skin which is typical of Nordic/Anglosaxon people. I am very happy and content being olive in complexion and having my nose shape although I acknowledge many Mexicans have an inferiority complex and a very close minded concept of what is considered beautiful and what is considered ugly.
Unlike most Mexican men, I am not attracted at all to women with blonde hair or Nordic/Anglosaxon features. I find much more beautiful physically a Japanese woman, an Arab woman, an Indian (from India) woman, or a tapatia woman with olive skin and big, dark eyes and hair than a Nordic or Anglo-saxon woman. But that is my personal preference.
I want Mexico to have a more open mind regarding beauty honestly speaking and stop with this inept inferiority complex
Cheers!
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Hola E.O.G! Thanks for stopping by! ¡Moreno es Guapo! I totally agree with you. Europeans don’t have any kind of monopoly on beauty at all. Thanks for your comment, and any future comment should go right through. Saludos!
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Though my taste is toward men, and though my husband is a Norwegian from Iowa—as güero as they get—I think smooth cinnamon skin is one of Her greatest creations.
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Hola Al! You’re preaching to the choir, here. Saludos and thanks for your continued interest and comments.
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Hello Kim!!
Thank you.Well, it is my personal and objective point of view. Like Enrique, I am also a mestizo with more European blood/features (except that unlike his eyes look mixed, my eyes are Greek or Arab looking as they are big and almond shaped) The only clearly Indigenous features in me are my somewhat high cheekbones and that I am not very hairy, but the rest of my features and skin colour are pretty much Mediterranean.
Honestly, I am puzzled why he thinks he is ugly as by Mexican standards of male beauty, both him and I will be an 8/10 as if we go by the close minded Mexican ideal of beauty as your friend and I have more Euro features than Indigenous features. In Mexico, if a mestizo is going to be considered “handsome” or “beautiful”, the European blood and features have to predominate over the Indigenous features.
But like I said, beauty is measured how symmetrical one´s facial features are, independent of skin colour, race and hair colour. I have seen hideous Nordic or Anglosaxon folks back in my years living in the USA, whilst I have seen hot Asian and Middle Eastern gals who were more beautiful than any Nordic woman I have seen.
Cheers
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Hola EOG! Thanks for your continued interest. Saludos!!!
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This is a little late, but I just heard about this blog.
The supremacy of white skin over black or brown is an universal phenomenon.
In Cuba, afro hair was considered “bad” and straight hair “good hair.” Many blacks or mulattos hoped to marry white so they could “improve” or “mejorar”.
In Haiti, which I’ve visited three times, light-skinned blacks were considered the aristocracy, and indeed Baby Doc, the pumpkin-headed former dictator, married a woman named Michelle, who was indeed gorgeous and very nearly white.
Closer to home, Felix, our gardener, married a girl, a güerita, who gave him three kids, a morenita, a güerito, and another morenita. When the last baby arrived I asked if it was a boy or a girl, and he somberly replied, “another morenita.” He loves his family dearly, but clearly he was hoping for a light-skinned baby.
I haven’t mentioned it to him, for fear he might think I’m making a pass at him, but I’d like to tell Felix he ought to enjoy his beautiful cinnamon skin.
Al
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Hola Al! Thanks for your thoughtful observations. Now that you’re known to the blog, subsequent comments will appear immediately. In Asia, too, white skin is considered better. Though I’m about as white as they come, I’d love to have moreno claro skin. But given my pallor, I work hard to stay out of the sun to avoid skin damage. As for Felix, maybe you should just explain to him some time how much time and effort certain Gringos expend trying to be tanned. That might make him appreciate his skin color a bit more. Saludos and thanks for stopping by!
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look forward to other postings (the blog is still alive, right?) I think I subscribed.
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Hola Al! Yes, the blog is still alive. Barely, LOL. The Zacatecas Fantasy Real Estate post is only 2 weeks old, and I’m working on another post too. Saludos and thanks for stopping by!!!
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Hi Kim! Been reading backwards (and thorougly enjoying) your roadtrip tales! This one is so interesting (not least because it happened in mi querida Zacatecas), but because I have experienced this sooo many times and in so many different situations and circumstances. From people genuinely confused as to how I could prefer a Mexican to a blonde, guero British guy “que son mil veces mas guapos que los Mexicanos” to seeing pharmacy and supermarket shelves lined with skin whitening products, to wandering about as I please in the Cancun hotel zone while my (moreno) boyfriend is approached almost instantly and asked to show his wristband, to going to a hen party in a “Women’s Club” and seeing how the pièce de résistance of each and every act (without fail) is a guero European guy, to witnessing straight up racism against my boyfriend, etc. etc. It’s ludicrous but unfortunately it’s also so engrained as you witnessed with the clowns in Zacatecas. I’m biased to one particular Zacatecano (obviously, hehe!) but Enrique certainly has nothing to worry about and one can only hope that your words did have a lasting effect…
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Hola Gina! Indeed, I’m with you. I think moreno es guapo. Sadly we are out of step with the rest of Mexico. When F and I were in Zacatecas last year for Semana Santa, I walked right through the police lines while he was grilled and frisked, presumably for being Moreno. I see it over and over and it bothers me too. Saludos and thanks for stopping by.
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I recall that when my then-wife and I landed on Irish soil back in the 1970s, she walked through immigration easily. I, large and black-bearded at the time, a visual IRA stereotype, got pulled out of line for a grilling. She had been walking just ahead of me, and it was not clear we were together. When her innocent-looking self returned to my side, and they saw we were together, they waved me on without further ado. This aspect of human nature, call it profiling, will never, ever change. The exact same thing happened at the airport in Havana 35 years later for the same reason. People are judged by their appearance. One can get indignant about it. (I don’t.) One can pass laws about it, but it will not change how we feel. It is a PC pipe dream. Anyway, sometimes profiling is a useful policing tool.
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Felipe: I think your Ireland example is a great one. You had 100% control over the beard as a matter of style. Style often correlates with beliefs or attitudes. But simply having a different skin tone doesn’t have the same correlation to anything. Saludos!
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Pingback: RACISM IN MEXICO “UNQUESTIONABLE” (TRANSLATION) | LATIN AMERICA FOCUS
Excellent post on skin tone preference in Mexico, white is right in that country, this is the result of colonialism. Many Mexicans think that having lighter skin is a blessing, just look at Mexican media, everyone is white looking, you’d hardly see any indigenous looking people on Mexican TV even though they compose a large part of Mexican society. Its unfortunate that your Zacatecan friend has such extreme self esteem issues, he’s very handsome, in fact, i’d say he’s gorgeous, he’d definitely pass as southern European.
It’s obvious that light skinned people are preferred in Mexico, but projecting confidence goes along way, too. I recall on my last trip to the DF, the most poshest nightclubs were filled with light skinned Mexicans, I was the only Moreno at these establishments and yet everyone was very welcoming.Keep in mind that I’m incredibly dark, people always assume me to middle eastern, in Mexico i always get called extranjero even though my parents were born there and I was born in the USA. I think having confidence in your self can take you far regardless of your skin tone, I was able to ligar (hook up) with a Jewish Mexican because of it. I think your friend could benefit from some confidence rather than a nose job,
Anyways, I have been to many states across Mexico and I have to say that the some of the best looking men and women are found in Zacatecas and the surrounding areas,
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Hola Adrian! I think you are right about Enrique’s lack of confidence. In fact he proved to be the sort of perfect case for this post exactly because he IS beautiful, yet remains trapped in this Mexican one-dimensional view of beauty. I’m glad you are confident in your looks. There are lot of very handsome moreno folks out there. I’d love to start a public service campaign here called “Moreno Is Beautiful.” Here in San Cristóbal de las Casas, there are some STUNNINGLY beautiful indigenous people. Thanks for your thoughtful comment and Saludos!
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Wow, is there a lot to respond to here. I met up with some friends around my age (hovering 50 +/-) and one of them is doing a pretty good job at passing for 40. He showed up so moisturized and plumped up, and got really annoyed when someone mentioned his real age. If this young guy you met doesn’t come off his insecurities, 29, 39 and 49 are going to a real terror.
As for facial features, I’ll be the first to admit that I’d love to avail myself of some of that medical tourism of Mérida. A little injection here, a bit of nose shaved there… but then I tell myself that I’ve gotten along pretty well with the face I’ve got. And yet, for all the money I’ve spent renovating a property in Mérida, why shouldn’t I renovate myself? I’m discovering that I’m much more vain than I’ve realized.
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Hola Lee! Interesting story about your youthful-looking friend. Yes, Enrique has some issues. The sad thing is he’s really QUITE handsome so he has nothing to worry about. But I guess that’s proof that it’s all one’s state of mind. Me personally, I’m aging pretty well, but wonder if some day I’ll want to do some “renovation.” I have mixed feelings about it. From time to time I fantasize about dying my hair, but then fear getting onto a treadmill I can’t get off if I do so. So I remain gray on the sides and salt & pepper on top. Thanks for commenting. Saludos.
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Pingback: By a nose… or, You are so beautiful to me… | The Mex Files
The issues you raise are more complex in some ways than one post can cover. I’d like to respond to some points you make (on my own site), but one that jumps out in your encounter is something I’ve also run across… young men — especially young men willing to consider older men as companions — often go out of their way to be “pleasing” to the would be partner (or partner de jour). They see themselves as having to be what you want, and assume what you want is a He who is more like yourself — the “whiteness” being only incidental to being more gringo-looking. As I noticed, it was his nose, not his skin tone, that he saw as the primary feature needing changed. ——— Another small point is that being stared out may not have had anything to do with your features as a gringo, and more to do with markers you might not think about. I realized I was turning Mexico when I noticed a really hot guy on the metro one evening, tall and blonde — which made him stand out, of course — but realized he was a gringo because of the way he sat and his unpolished shoes! Still, congratulations on being able to culturally adjust your gaydar, something most foreigners have trouble with.
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Hola Rich, yes, the issues are far more complex than my post has covered. Though I am no stranger to the whole concept of moreno vs. güero, I had never quite heard it as baldly spelled out as those clowns in the plaza did. It frankly kind of shocked me. I also thought it’d be an interesting topic for my readers, and judging by the wonderful comments, I think that was correct. As for Enrique being “pleasing,” let’s just say that I’ve enjoyed chatting with him, but it really hasn’t gone any farther than that. Frankly, I’ve become a bit curious about what he wants from me, but he just texted me again this evening wondering if I was still in Zacatecas, so he has some kind of interest. Whether that be because I’m foreign or he thinks I’m hot, who knows? I’ve always found such young men to be quite perplexing, including when I was one of them. Saludos, and thanks for your thoughtful comment.
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“Frankly, I’ve become a bit curious about what he wants from me.”
Kim, sometimes I cannot avoid rolling my eyeballs at you. This is so easy to answer. He wants a higher lifestyle.
When I moved south, single like you at the time, I had women buzzing about me like flies on a warm patty, and, yes, some could have almost been my grandchildren.
I do not fault this. It makes perfect sense and has been going one since Day One of Humanity in one way or the other. If you are on the receiving end, however, care should be taken. So take care.
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Mexico doesn’t have the ethnic/racial diversity that Canada or the US has. We stick out like sore thumbs here. My DD is quite tall, has red hair, very pale skin, freckles and blue eyes. (No Irish blood, just the genetic roll of the dice.) You should see the people staring at her as she walks down the street in Merida. I told her she was exotic and she laughed, but it is true. She has embraced her appearance and does not take too much sun.
My future DIL is of Chinese origin. She was not born in China, but gets called “Chinita” here. There is what seems to be a racist tone to the comments. Stores have signs saying “El Chinito” with cartoon figures of Chinese people, and “plecio mas balato” (yes, spelled like that, making fun of the supposed inability of a Chinese person to pronounce the letter L). Since she cannot read Spanish, we have not talked about this. It wouldn’t be right to point out a potentially offensive sign to her, when she probably doesn’t know about it. If she asked about it, I’d tell her, but see no need to do so unless asked.
It would be an advantage here to be naturally a little darker, I try to stay out of the sun so I don’t burn. I say its best to be happy with what the good Lord gave us.
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Oops, I meant the supposed inability of the Chinese to pronounce the letter R.
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Hi Joanne, I agree with you. The diversity here tends to run a semi-continuous spectrum from pure criollos to pure indigenas and everything in between. I’ve only seen a few African-americans and the odd Asian. There is a Chinese community in DF, and some Koreans too. There’s also a Chinese restaurant here in Zacatecas with at least one Chinese person working in it. But I suspect that there aren’t too many Asians outside of DF. AS for your future DIL, I agree. Why point out an offensive sign. Hopefully she doesn’t take it too badly when she figures it out. Thanks for your comment. Saludos!
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Well to be fair you were in Merida and in the state of Yucatan which like many of Southern Mexican states are highly indigenous and have the largest indigenous populations of all of Mexico :P. But yes Mexico does not have much of diversity when it comes to Canada, especially Toronto! Of what I’ve seen in a Washington Post article about countries around the world and diversity, Mexico is actually more diverse than the United States which surprised me with not surprising Japan and the Korea’s being Homogeneous. I do not think that when your DIL [Did they get married I wonder haha] was called Chinita was anything regarding racial but more of what she looks like. More of stating her appearance being of Chinese origin.
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I think that if I could order a new body for myself, I would tick the brown skin option.
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Croft, I’m with you. I wish I were Moreno Claro, but I’m gonna be totally white until the day I die. My only hope is that I don’t become one of those old white men whose skin has become paper-white, bordering on transparent. Saludos!
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On a slightly different topic–sometimes staring directly at someone can be seen as a challenge and being the first to drop the stare a weakness. In fact this has started some serious fights up here in California del Norte among the gang wanabees.
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Good point, Christine. My stares are in the nature of flirtation, and often accompanied by a smile. Sometimes I wonder if I’m going to get myself into trouble, but so far, so good. I’m also NOT looking that way at guys who look like they might be toughs. I may be adventuresome, but I’m not going to do something stupid either. Thanks for commenting. Saludos!
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Kim: I hope you did nothing indecorous with the lad. You could be his grandpop!
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Oh Felipe, for heavens sakes!
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I’m not the one constantly trumpeting a child bride. Nor child groom, LOL… See my response to Rich.
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By the way, the link that “Lady of the Cakes” posted about beauty standards in Taiwan is quite interesting along with the comments. I’d definitely recommend taking a look at it.
Kim G
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The permanently tanned Mexican ladies have spoiled me for anything else – and my Latino green-eyed wife is the epitome of all that 😉 Lucky me.
Safe travels amigo.
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John, I felt that way about F before we broke up, darkly handsome. But wow! A Latina wife with green eyes! She’s something else again. Lucky man, you! Saludos.
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Welcome to our world. Yes, dark is beautiful. I prefer it. My wife is morena but at a middle level. I wish she were a bit darker, but don’t tell her I said so. I don’t want her to get an inferiority complex due to being insufficiently smoky. Smoky is good.
“Why do they look back at me?” you ask. Because so few Gringos go to Zacatecas. That’s why. The unusual always stands out in a crowd. And we Mexicans also know that Gringos are easily separated from their cash.
Too bad that fellow is going to waste his money on plastic surgery and likely mess himself up in the process.
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Felipe: I’m hoping that Enrique will take some of what I said to heart. He’s already so handsome that any cosmetic procedure is likely to only run him downhill. I really hope he comes to see that. Saludos.
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You know as well as I that people here go to tanning beds and expose themselves to dangerous radiation to look more “moreno”. Why, because they feel they ‘look better’ with a tan, or, they don’t want to ‘look so pale’ when they go on their beach vacation. This of course is pure vanity.
Some of what you speak about is the realities that one has to deal with in being treated differently in one’s own country, and even in one’s own family because of skin color, height, size of nose, hair color, shape of lips, etc. It is prevalent in many Latin American countries. It is disheartening but true, and has existed for centuries…
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Hola Andean! Yes, you’re totally right. In Boston, plenty of super-pale Irish-Americans do the whole tanning-bed thing, and by the age of 40 they look like pink dinosaurs with totally destroyed skin. I think that’s just as bad (maybe worse) than having dark skin and trying to bleach it light. And yes, my post isn’t going to change the reality that the clown taught the girls that day. Here, sadly, güero IS better. I’m fortunate to be on the “right” side of it, but I still think it’s sad. And it’s not likely to change any time soon. Saludos.
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P.S. In my early 20’s I decided that it’d be better to be pale white than to be wrinkled. So I have ever since assiduously avoided sun and tanning of any kind. For that decision, I owe my current, youthful skin, here in middle age.
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I’ve never used a tanning bed, but I love walking on the beach on a sunny day. We can all use more vitamin D – I’m not vain just health concious LOL
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I take vitamin D every day. Somewhere down the highway, I realized I had forgotten to pack it. Then I came to my senses. “You’re on your way to Mexico, silly!” I said to myself. “You won’t lack for vitamin D.
By the way, you are Latina, no? Your skin probably does better in sun than mine anyway. Color me envious.
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I am. But for some reason only my body tans nicely. My face has German, Swedish and other pale genes… go figure.
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Hmmm… I think from being exposed all the time our faces are harder to tan. Before I gave up the sun, I had the same experience. Now I’m white all over, LOL.
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I was serious about the genes. My siblings range from moreno to super blanco. Different eye colors. I wish I had the green. It was taken LOL
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I’m sure you’re guapa in your own way.
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There are some Mexicans who insist that racism does not exist in their nation, but I don’t buy it. It may not be the “sit at the back of the bus” type of racism, but what else can you call the pervasive attitude that “guero” is beautiful. If you were to base your impression of Mexico on the television shows and advertising you would think that most of the population is European. The actors who look more indigenous usually have the roles of the family servants.
My friend from Mexico City is actually shunned by one branch of his family because he is too “moreno”.
There are plenty of “morenos” who are middle and even upper class… but when have you ever seen an impoverished European-looking Mexican?
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Indeed, Bill. I think Mexico is in denial about the whole race issue. And as you note, it goes well beyond concepts of beauty. I wrote this post just to bring up an issue that non-Spanish speakers may not have noticed. I don’t think anything’s likely to change soon, but it’s part of Mexico’s culture that deserves some introspection. Thanks for stopping by! Saludos.
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It is true that Mexicans say they are not racist while simultaneously being hyper-color-conscious. The thing is that the term racist to Mexicans means anti-black, i.e. American blacks or anyone of African ancestry. It is a narrow definition. They get this definition of racism from what they see above the border, in the U.S., the Jim Crow days of the Old South, now long gone, and the current racial tension that crackles everywhere in the United States.
And since blacks are so very rare in Mexico (except, I hear, along some parts of the eastern coastline), most Mexicans can count the number of blacks they have personally encountered on one hand. Many have never seen even one black person. As a result, Mexicans are not anti-black. A black person in Mexico is a thing of novelty, a curiosity. Nothing more.
Mexicans’ own obsession with shades of brown is a totally different thing to them, It’s just common sense, of course, something everybody simply accepts. Lighter is good. Darker is unfortunate.
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Felipe, I’d add a couple thoughts to what you wrote. In the TV series, Los Heroes del Norte, (no, not the ultimate guide to race relations in Mexico, but certain something that’s going to reflect common perceptions) there’s an episode where they’re interviewing candidates to replace their lead singer. A black guy is one of the candidates, and he can really sing well (though in a kind of stereotypical way). But they make endless fun of his lips, his skin, and his style. And there’s a kind of unspoken, “No way we can have a black lead singer” theme running through that episode too. To me that was very racist, and if you had made such a program in the USA, people probably would have burned down the TV station.
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We don’t call that racism. We call it making fun of people who are different! And that is rampant in Mexico. Were you aware of the hubbub above the border maybe seven or eight years ago when Mexico put Memin Pinguin on a postage stamp? And not for the first time, I recall. Oh, the “offense” taken above the border was nuclear. The Gringos were screaming that we should recall the stamp. We didn’t. If you don’t know who Memin Pinguin is, here’s a photo. He’s long been a beloved cartoon character in Mexico. Still is:
http://tinyurl.com/polo2k8
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Felipe, I recall that controversy and the fact that Gringos were incapable of understanding the cultural context. I also believe you wrote about it on one of your now-defunct blogs. Saludos!
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See that is not racists. Mexican society isn’t exactly Politically Correct as is our American society. Negro, Moreno, Guero, etc are not used in a racist way, as own from an outside perspective would think. When someone calls a person one of those attributes, it is pretty much because one is what the word is describing or has an attribute that the word describes. If someone is Dark, we would call them Moreno/Negro. It’s not about being racist, it is basically describing how a person looks based on his appearance. If someone is an Indigenous we would call them Indio because, well they are Indigenous or Moreno because he is brown. To an outsider, it would definitely feel weird, possibly seem racist but it is not. Very hard to explain.
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Hola KylePirate! To me, it was pretty clear from the clown show that Moreno was considered less desirable than güero, which I think is a sad thing. Whether it’s racist or something else is, I suppose, up to interpretation. But in this case, it seemed fairly negative. Saludos!
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“…when have you ever seen an impoverished European-looking Mexican?” Today, yesterday, and undoubtedly tomorrow. Of course, I live in a seaport (Mazatlán) but I ran across obviously not-rich güeros in DF, Tabasco and Jalisco (and throughout the north). The whole issue of “race” and “color” and “class” is much more complex than one might think, though I do note that “raza” in Spanish refers primarily to “breed” (as in dogs or cattle) and/or nationality or cultural identitiy (“Por mi raza hablará el espíritu”) and only the seventh definition in the DAE includes what in English is the primary meaning of “race” in the sense of bloodlines.
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This is a fairly old comment but my Maternal Grandfather was poor relatively speaking from Zacatecas it so happens (Viva Zacatecas Haha) and was European: Spanish/German I believe. So yes, there are ‘poorer lower class’ White Mexicans. I’m not really well educated on the whole Racial problems below the border not having been to Mexico for nearly two decades but what I have noticed that it’s not really based on one’s color but more about perceived class, a mash of classism and racism. But that is from a Third Party View, and one that isn’t an Indigenous or Dark Moreno [Of which I believe is referred to a Mestizo of a darker complexion?]
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Hola KylePirate! Interesting view of things. I think you’re right–the discrimination is a mix of racism and classism, but I think often in Mexico dark skin is (incorrectly) associated with lower class. Saludos and thanks for commenting!
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OK. I am not the person to comment on this issue. The biggest love affair I have had in my life is with myself. Other than a couple of years in high school, where I wanted to be taller for sports, I have been quite happy with who I am and how I look. So, I have never understood this notion of wanting to have cosmetic sugery or wallow in therapy or change Just That One Litlle Thing That Will Make My Life Just perfect. I also know that there are plenty of people who allow themselves to be manipulated into believing they can be what they never can be. I, on the other hand, long ago decided that mediocrity would suit me just fine.
On a trip to Guanajuato a coupe of years ago, I noted to a Canadian woman that the young people in town seemed lighter-skinned than the young people in Melaque. She was outraged that I could say something so “racist.” Northerners have become so neurotic about this topic (you are an obvious exception to this gross generalization), that they cannot even have a rational discussion about skin color. Taken on the whole, I far prefer the Mexican attitude with its flawed view.
Thanks for the story. Zacatecas is certainly on my visit list. Though, I doubt I will be doing any cosmetic surgery consultations.
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Thanks for sharing your story, Steve. Yes, I find this North American idea that you can’t even discuss race, or notice racial differences to be real impediment to something that needs to be a continuing discussion. I’ve certainly had issues with my own looks, but I’ve never felt bad about being of European stock. And I think it’s ridiculous that Mexicans, a majority of whom are moreno or mixed, are being made to feel inferior from a young age. Saludos!
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Conservatives in American discuss race easily. It’s the other side of the political spectrum that tends to have hissy fits when the word is mentioned or the topic is raised. True.
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It seems to get too much attention north of the border, and too little south of the border.
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Never heard or have seen the word moreno before in my life. The young man you photographed looks exactly like my gay neighbor in the guest house who is 25 but has the maturity of someone 10 years older.
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Oops, I meant to add that he is from Zacatecas and too, is very handsome.
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I am proud of being a Coulrophobic, never saw the interest or appreciation of the so called art.
Funny you should mention plastic surgery, a 75 year old friend of mine just came back from a three week retreat where she had her skin tightened.
It looks hideous, what’s wrong with looking your age? Too much value is put into this BS, especially from the trade, advertisers and doctors.
Ok, who was Salinas Garcia? Nice clean empty plaza..
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Hola Tancho! I had to look up coulrophobic; you taught me a new one. I think Joan Rivers is the poster child for cosmetic surgery gone wrong. And god knows she didn’t have to scrimp on some low-end doctor. As for who the plaza is named for, I think he was an 18th century reformer, but the data are sketchy. Saludos and thanks for commenting.
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You obviously have not seen Kim Novak recently. Yipes!
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No, I haven’t. By the way, if you haven’t, see “Joan Rivers: Piece of Work.” It’s a documentary about her, and it’s fascinating.
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Or Goldy Hawn. Maybe they don’t want to end up looking like Bruce Dern — a man who looks like his age and wears it well.
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He is very pretty. And from the photo, he looks about 25. 19??? BOTOX??????
The pesky issue of beauty standards, I agree that it’s totally absurd, this narrow-mindedness. I live in Spain, as you know, and blonde is beautiful. Of course, the average Spanish woman who decides to dye her hair blonde looks just ridiculous. It doesn’t work. They are good looking as they are. As are the men, on the whole.
I guess there’s a universal a desire to stand out from the crowd. The Scandinavians I’ve known have tended to find dark-eyed people more attractive than those with blue eyes.
Amy wrote an interesting (but too short!) post once on Taiwanese beauty standards, and how Western perceptions and local perceptions diverge:
http://languageboat.com/2013/10/28/western-guys-date-the-ugliest-taiwanese-girls/
But please, feel free to put up as many pics of “ugly” Mexicans as you like 😉
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LOL…yes, if Enrique is ugly, the good-looking ones have got to be causing traffic jams, right? I’m going to take a look at that post on Taiwanese beauty standards. And I may be proving true to type, as an American who is genetically Scandinavian. Of course if you’re basing your thesis on Scandinavians in Spain, there may be some selection bias involved. Saludos, and thanks for the thoughtful comment.
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You just exposed a very painful reality — racism in Mexico. I have never experienced discrimination because my skin is not dark and my eyes are green, but I sure have witnessed discriminatory acts against people with dark skin, often by people who have dark skin themselves! I would say that this is ridiculous, but above all it’s very sad, and I wish the things were different and we Mexicans could learn to love ourselves just the way we are and be proud of our indigenous origins. We are Mexicans! By the way, Enrique is guapo but both Rodolfo and I doubt that he is 19. 25 maybe.
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Hola Tino! Yes, it’s sad. What’s really sad is the general denial of the situation, even by morenos. I find this puzzling. As for Enrique’s age, I was thinking about 25 myself, but he told me 19, and I don’t have any reason to disbelieve him either. That said, I do think he has model qualities, and model-types tend to look about 25 even when they’re much younger. Remember the teen-aged Brooke Shields? At the age of 15 she looked like a gorgeous 25-year-old. Saludos y abrazos!
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Florentino… tienes raz’on. “Para que la cuña apriete debe ser del mismo palo.”
For those who are not familiar this expression, it means that when another person is like you, he can hurt you most deeply. Sadly in Mexico, this is rampant, and has been for centuries.
I have 2 children; one is fair like me. The other is “morena clara” with chocolate eyes like her dad. Right from babyhood, their “differences” were pointed out. People actually asked me why I had been so “greedy” and not “arranged” for my daughter to also have blue eyes. At first I thought they were kidding. But when a family member told my son that he was the “lucky one” and “favorite” I knew I was in for a life-long battle. If a person’s own family won’t accept the genetic “arrangement” what hope does anyone have?
It should be mentioned that my daughter is drop-dead gorgeous. She is proud of being Latina and her blond brother gets furious when people think he’s a gringo.
I think this whole obsession with color, height, age and “parentesco” is the most painful way to shoot one’s self in the foot. Let’s get over it already!
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Hi Joanna, Thanks for the wonderful, thoughtful comment. I’m glad this post stirred up some debate. I think Mexico needs a “Moreno es Guapo” campaign to help overcome some of these ridiculous prejudices. The fact that it’s so out in the open that clown acts are inculcating 5-year-olds seems to be perfect evidence that the pendulum needs to swing the other way. Saludos.
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